Thursday, August 14, 2008

Let That Shit Go

What if Barack Obama was a loser?

I mean, what if he had been unable to pull his campaign together and overcome all the obstacles in his path, and Hillary Rodham Clinton was the presumptive Democratic nominee? What if he had lost to her?

How would you be taking it?

I ask that question because we all know that the minions (sorry WNG) of one Hillary Clinton have not taken her defeat well. In fact, they've taken her loss horribly and seem intent on writing a primer on the absolute best way to make sure nobody thinks Hillary supporters are graceful losers. Those are some bitter bastards.

The funny thing about all the angst from Clinton supporters is that the media seems unwilling to just call them spoiled brats and move on. Every week or so there is a story about what Barack has to do to court these people and make them feel loved. The only problem is that most of the diehard Hillary folks will never vote for Obama because he's Obama. It doesn't matter what policy position he takes, or who he invites into his campaign. Barack Obama will never be Hillary Clinton and so he will never be acceptable to certain folks.

In addition, you have Bill and Hillary fanning the flames by making off the wall comments. Bill is complaining that Obama hit him with the race card, Hillary is claiming that her supporters need to be "heard. " Recently, she said that she's not sure if anybody is ever ready to be president. All this while they beg Obama and his supporters to help Hillary retire her campaign debt.

The Audacity of Whiteness, indeed.

Anyway, I'm looking at this maneuvering and just shaking my head. It reminds me of when people get dumped in a relationship, swear they are over everything, and then they spend the next four months following their ex to the grocery story, calling their ex's phone and breathing hard on the other end, and finally hacking into their ex's email account.

Denial is a helluva drug.

That's what Hillary and her supporters are mired in, denial. They truly don't want to accept the fact that despite all of her built-in advantages, Hillary Clinton got her ass handed to her by a skinny black dude with a fucked up name and a crazy pastor. If they were computers all they would have on the screen would be "syntax error."

When I'm not consumed with anger, I feel sorry for the poor bastards. Since most of them grew up white and privileged, I'm sure getting smacked around by black people hasn't been a normal occurrence for them. Oh, they may complain about black people getting all the advantages, but I would wager that in most of their personal lives they've never actually seen that happen. Their complaints are hypothetical or based on secondhand accounts.

But, my pity only extends so far. If these folks keep showing their asses my pity is going to be consumed by my anger, and I don't think I'm the only black person that feels that way. See, black people have been willing to cut Bill and Hillary some slack because we know it takes a while for white people to come to grips with defeat, but if they and their buddies actually cost The Black Hope his chance to be President, well there is going to be hell to pay.

I don't think these people understand the anger of black people scorned. I don't think they understand that we can wreak havoc on any political plans they have for the future in they keep fucking with the rules. That's why I'm advising them, although I doubt that they will listen, to just just let this thing go.

Just let it go. This opportunity has passed. Bill and Hillary need to take solace in the fact that they are still rich, and their supporters need remember that most of them are still white. Life is ok for them, this is not the end of the world. Being white in America is still a pretty good deal no matter what the president looks like.

Besides, even if Obama wins, black people will still be black. That is not changing, and Obama will only have so much power to help us. Hillary supporters, the white ones at least, need to let black folks have this symbolic moment and then concentrate on maintaining their stranglehold on real power in this country.

Just move on. It's for the best.

28 comments:

OG, The Original Glamazon said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
OG, The Original Glamazon said...

Great post! Lots of great stuff. Great Black Hope Love that!

-OG

WNG said...

What can I say but, "Yup". Because damn if you didn't hit it right on the head, AGAIN...this is getting to be a habit with you.

Here's my question though, with most polls showing that at least 75-80% of HillBill's supporters going for Obama what, exactly is the big deal? Why is the media paying attention to this crap? Are they that addicted to the Clinton Crack?

blackgirlinmaine said...

Amen. It really is time for this bitter bunch to let it go and move on. I suspect that if the shoe was on the other foot and Obama had lost, we would not be hearing anymore about him. Instead the Clintons are like roaches, these mothas will not go away.

Big Man said...

Black Girl

I can't really say that Obama supporters wouldn't still be heated if he lost, particularly if he lost because of the Clinton's racism. But, the difference is that the media wouldn't be giving us the same sort of respect the Clinton folks have received. They would be telling black folks to be realistic, and also pointing out that it's not like black folks are going to vote Republican so it's no big deal.

See, white folks get to be bitter and vindictive and people think that's normal. Black folks do it and we're childish and unrealistic.

Anonymous said...

You think it'd be merely symbolic for Obama to be elected president? That is, that it would not represent a drastic shift in race relations in the United States? It'd be monumental, heck just having a major party nominee is HUGE.

I voted for the good Senator myself, in California. I went into the booth not knowing who I'd vote for either, since Clinton and he were so similar on the issues. But I figured, eh, what the hell, give the new guy a chance.

One more thing, and I feel this must be said: I propose that Obama won caucus states and not private voting states because he's young and hip and black. That's right. If in California it had been a caucus, no hesitation, it'd be Obama, just so I could "prove" that I wasn't racist. All my friends agree too, and most of them voted Clinton. They said they'd have voted Obama had it been a caucus even though they thought he was the inferior candidate. Not because he's black or any such nonsense (it IS possible to not vote for him for other reasons besides his race btw) but because they wouldn't want to risk anybody thinking they were racist. So I'm just saying, empirical proof that the caucuses worked in his favor.

I truly hope Obama wins because I'm sick and tired of the Republicans. And if 50%+ of the country votes for a black man then you can hardly say it's merely "symbolic" and not all McCain voters are racist you know.

Also, just a question (and again, I'm NOT arguing that racism is past us or anything ridiculous like that), but what would it take for the anger to subside? What would it take to satisfy you guys (you folks who comment here, not you people) that things were truly equitable? 5 black presidents in a row? Proportional number of CEOs? Reparations? What would it take?

What would it take for you to die happy with the state of things. That's what I want to know.

Big Man said...

Anon

Full equality.

Can your people handle that?

I would like to have equal humanity with every white person in America in every situation I walk into. My humanity should be on the same plane as theirs.

That's what I want.

Also, if folks were worried that people would think they were racist because they didn't vote for Obama, I wonder why Al Sharpton didn't get more votes. For a "known race baiter" Al Sharpton has sure done a poor job of capitalizing on being black in his presidential runs. Shame on Al.

Anonymous said...

What do you mean "my people"? Is that supposed to be racist?

j/k

Al Sharpton is a joke. He wasn't even close to the other candidates in terms of qualifications. Obama is competent and on level with other candidates. And don't get pissy about this observation, it's true and you know it, plus a real live white guy is telling you :)

Obama/Biden '08!

truth said...

Great post,
I just tagged you, Big Man. Check out my blog for more details.

Peace

Big Man said...

Anon

Of course I know it's true.

A white dude told me.

the uppity negro said...

@ anonymous

Al Sharpton had a Jesse Jackson problem in 2004--he simply had the baggage of the civil rights movement attached to him. I also think his lack of him ever being elected to office more or less doomed him from the start. I mean, for what it's worth Jackson did have Operation PUSH under his belt as a qualification of running an organization--prior to 2004, Sharpton just knew how to run his mouth.

However, what doomed Jackson, and just aided in Sharpton's demise was that actually, both of them pulled a card from MLK--they started talking about poor folk. Black and white, and Mexican, and Chinese and Polish--rich white folk aint ready for that kind of real change.

Clearly Obama has NONE of the baggage that Sharpton or Jackson have.

Now that that's out of the way.

What it would take for me is A) a governmental apology meaning a REAL congressional resolution, with a roll call vote (I wanna know who's not participating) that apologizes on behalf of a government that allowed for it go on. B) For white folks to fully admit "white privilege" which would ultimately lead to what Big Man said: Full Equality.

@ at the post in general

Let the record show that I'm not about to get angry, I'm already there.

I don't feel sorry, I don't feel pity, and since I can curse on this blog, I feel liberated to say, this SHIT was planned from the fucking start.

Look at what this hoe did.

1) She didn't give up early. This allowed her to ultimately amass these 18,000,000 votes that had she dropped out earlier, when CLEARLY her numbers were not going to add up even with Michigan and Florida. This was the plan so that going into this nomination she could say that Obama DID NOT have the "mandate" that historically all candidates have walking into their own friggin coronation.

2) This ICE QUEEN only suspended her candidacy.

SHE DIDN'T EFFIN DROP OUT!

Please tell me where in history did the candidate who LOST not drop out--why because she had the 18 million voters and the hand full of states and their delegates in her back pocket so that she can waltz into this convention upstaging him.

3) Let's talk about superdelegates again--she only needs 200 superdelegates to get to that 2,100 and some odd people to split this convention. And since they're doing a roll call vote, if anyone gets on the floor and changes their mind, we're about to see Democratic Dysfunction on Display.

I mean, if Bill gets to any of these superdelegates--we're screwed.

Anonymous said...

Uppity uh... person, I agree it was uncool for her not to drop out after it became clear that she could not catch up. I wouldn't worry about funny business at the convention, Obama is the nominee, nobody is crazy or stupid enough to strip the nomination from Obama. There would be riots in the streets and I'd be front and center of them, out of respect for the process (not because Obama's black.)

OTOH, one could argue that it toughened him up and delayed the right wing dogs' attacks for as long as possible. I mean, dang, the tenor and viciousness of the Republican attacks now that he's the nominee makes what the Clintons were throwing at him look gentle. He has a mandate, no worries, he's going to crush McCain in November. Wait till the debates to see a giant spike.

Also, I don't appreciate you calling her a hoe. I think she's a good public servant and very smart and would be a competent president.

Obama will be a fantastic president.

So a congressional roll call? What difference does it make, none of those participating has anything whatsoever to do with slavery. But sure, fine, I have no problem with it if it makes us feel better.

So if I, and my legions of fair skinned brethren, were to publicly sign off on a referendum saying "yes, I am benefiting from my whiteness," what does that do for you? Are new laws to be passed to negate this benefit?

The thing is, the damage is done. The legacy of slavery followed by segregation and inequality has made it so blacks are disproportionally poor and stuck in cycles of violence and ignorance in a way whites are not. So how do you correct that?

You can't, you just have to wait it out I guess, sucky as that may be. Any suggestions on how to clear out the projects in Chicago and turn those folks into contributing members of society?

No good complaining, let's find some solutions! I watched "The Wire" so I know all about it, you know. I'm an expert now.

Best

the uppity negro said...

I am an uppity Negro, check out my site.

Secondly, as a frequent poster on this site and others, me calling her a "hoe" is more hyperbole than an actually term to speak about her sexual prowess, or lack thereof.

I'm assuming you may be a new commenter, if not then I think you've missed the grand point of many of Big Man's posts and the comments following them.

I want a GOVERNMENTAL apology. I don't know how much more clear I can be. This is not about making white folk apologize for slavery or for Jim Crow--I want the government to acknowledge that as an entity it was WRONG.

Secondly, I think you've 100% missed the boat as far as the notion of white privilege is concerned.

I'll hold off my response until I get a working definition as to what do you think white privilege is.

JLL

P.S. And contrary to your opinion, half of the rioting would be because he IS black.

the uppity negro said...

I am an uppity Negro, check out my site.

Secondly, as a frequent poster on this site and others, me calling her a "hoe" is more hyperbole than an actually term to speak about her sexual prowess, or lack thereof.

I'm assuming you may be a new commenter, if not then I think you've missed the grand point of many of Big Man's posts and the comments following them.

I want a GOVERNMENTAL apology. I don't know how much more clear I can be. This is not about making white folk apologize for slavery or for Jim Crow--I want the government to acknowledge that as an entity it was WRONG.

Secondly, I think you've 100% missed the boat as far as the notion of white privilege is concerned.

I'll hold off my response until I get a working definition as to what do you think white privilege is.

JLL

P.S. And contrary to your opinion, half of the rioting would be because he IS black.

Anonymous said...

White privilege is basically what gets me to live my life without having to think about my race, one less burden in life to deal with.

I never have to wonder if I didn't get this or that job because of my race. I never have to wonder if I got fired or followed around in a store or pulled over because of my race (although I did get pulled over by a black cop once and I did sort of wonder a little bit, since my infraction was so ridiculously minor but oh well.)

Moreover, I never have to make a special effort to positively represent my race in order to offset negative representation from others of my race. I never have to walk into a room and see other people change their behavior because I am there due to my race.

I've _sort of_ felt this when I used to hang out with am all Asian crowd after college for a while, big groups, I was the only non-Asian, I was conscious of my race then. But not really in any debilitating sort of way, I was simply aware of it. I knew they weren't being extra sensitive around me or anything, nor was I. But the point is I had an extra thing on my mind that they didn't.

So yea that's what I think white priv is.

Governmental apology, sure, why not. I, of the people and therefore the government, formally apologize for slavery. Thing is though that my parents are first generation immigrants so I'm not sure that means too much from me, although I am an American. I could see the value from the descendants of wealthy landowners who benefited from slavery, but from me, sure if it makes you feel better, but nothing beyond that, I'm innocent.

So yes please enlighten me as to what privilege I get from being white, beyond what I mentioned. I am sure there is more (seriously, not being sarcastic or anything.)

You're probably right about the motivation of many of those rioting.

the uppity negro said...

I just think that's its very interesting how most white people are quite clear to prove their innocence to prove that they themselves had NOTHING to do with slavery, and that essentially they didn't benefit from it--either as a result of immigration or that "I" had nothing to do with.

It's very interesting to me how quickly and easily many whites disassociate themselves with slavery and Jim Crow as if all of a sudden black folk are going to do the same thing that was historically done to our ancestors. I think in many whites quick dismissal and disassociation of this issue is really highlighting the depth of their "white guilt."

Ergo, white privilege.

And more or less that's what white privilege is--how you described it. But also, I would add, that your skin color is in fact a privilege--whites have access to places and things that those of other races don't. A privilege means that one gets unearned benefits, and those benefits are based solely upon skin color.

The inability to recognise those privileges rests usually with the one(s) who are benefitting from those privileges--and since the privileges ascertained are based on skin color, then of course the ones who are underprivileged are clearly those who are non-white, which stands to reason why they're usually the groups who are hollering the loudest.

Real talk, why is it hard for so many whites to acknowledge that they've benefitted on behalf of slavery--including their descendants? Moreover, why is it so hard for immigrants and the descendants of immigrants to understand that they have done so well in this country because of white privilege?

Anonymous said...

I see your point and agree with most of it, a different angle I had not thought of before.

The one thing that leaves me puzzled is what you said regarding whites having access to places and things other races do not. Like what? I'm pretty sure there are no country clubs left with a whites-only policy?

So anyway, this is constructive. Let's answer this question and get somewhere then: what will it take for you to be happy with the state of race relations when you die? Does such an answer exist, or is the black population in America doomed to be angry for all eternity?

I have never heard anyone ask the question before, and I have never heard anyone articulate an answer for it like you have either. I doubt of course that all black people will have the same answer, but is there not a list that can be submitted to the congressional black caucus?

Say if a petition were started, an end-all list of things we want the congress to do. Start with the govt apology. I think that can be arranged. I don't think more than 1% of whites in this country think slavery was not a bad thing.

The admission of white priv is tougher, but how do you secure such an admission though? A referendum? And what comes of it after that? Say you get 95% of whites to agree. Then what?

Deacon Blue said...

When I see something like this:

...what will it take for you to be happy with the state of race relations when you die? Does such an answer exist, or is the black population in America doomed to be angry for all eternity?

------------------------------

It kind of puts me in mind of the less delicate question: "What will it make to get blacks to shut up already?"

Now, before any metaphorical fists start flying, I am NOT accusing you of that, Anon.

But I think at the heart of it, even for white people who have the ability to affect some real change (in hiring, in policy-making, etc.)...as opposed to one-on-one change like just treating everyone like people, which we should all do but which may not change anything substantive in terms of disparities in jobs, health, etc, in the short run...well, most white people, even the most well meaning ones, really just want to know...well...when the hell blacks will shut up already.

They don't say it. They might not even realize they are thinking it. But many whites just don't want to think in terms of guilt or having benefited from something their predecessors/ancestors did. (Frankly, humans are shitty at admitting guilt, which is the main reason people don't want to hear about Jesus, but that's another rant). They just really don't want to hear about it, and they will generally do the bare minimum to make people who aren't white to stop calling them on all this crap.

I don't know. I'm not in a position to affect much change for blacks except on that one-on-one level. So for me, at least, knowing that they have had (and continue to have) a huge hill to climb, and that I can't do much to decrease the grade on that hill, well, I am willing to let them bitch about it for at least as long as they were oppressed to begin with, and longer if necessary. So, that means I'm comfortable with another few centuries of it myself if it takes that long to set things right. I still benefit from being white, so I figure I ought to "man up" and be willing to hear some complaints for a while.

I don't know that the answer is really to ask "what will make blacks happy in terms of race relations." It's not about making blacks happy. It's about creating a truly level playing field. Making blacks happy is an aftereffect of that; making a truly level playing field is the priority and is, in fact, a noble goal that too few whites really give a shit about pursuing.

Really, truly levelling the field is going to take a long while, I suspect, and I don't much mind black folks being pissed until it happens.

the uppity negro said...

@anonymous

Um....wow.

That's about all I can say.

You make it sound so simple--which again is the product of white privilege. I mean the comment about "submitting a list to the congressional black caucus" is 100% laughable. Real talk, I'm not sure if this was a tongue-and-cheek response or is this truly the result of what I like to call "white ignorance."

White ignorance isn't really a bad thing, and is ignorance a valid excuse? Some say yes, some say no. But however, one must recognise their ignorance in order for it to be corrected.

And then to suggest the legislation of disavowing white privilege in the form of a referendum--wow, I mean, frankly I'm a bit insulted.

That's a TOTALLY ludicrous idea.

There's nolegislation of a mindset. I think what Deacon Blue suggested is about the best: this stuff has to happen on a one-on-one basis, like it has to happen with YOU!

No amount of legislation can change people's mindset.

the uppity negro said...

@anonymous

Um....wow.

That's about all I can say.

You make it sound so simple--which again is the product of white privilege. I mean the comment about "submitting a list to the congressional black caucus" is 100% laughable. Real talk, I'm not sure if this was a tongue-and-cheek response or is this truly the result of what I like to call "white ignorance."

White ignorance isn't really a bad thing, and is ignorance a valid excuse? Some say yes, some say no. But however, one must recognise their ignorance in order for it to be corrected.

And then to suggest the legislation of disavowing white privilege in the form of a referendum--wow, I mean, frankly I'm a bit insulted.

That's a TOTALLY ludicrous idea.

There's nolegislation of a mindset. I think what Deacon Blue suggested is about the best: this stuff has to happen on a one-on-one basis, like it has to happen with YOU!

No amount of legislation can change people's mindset.

Anonymous said...

Well then I must ask: what do you want from ME? (not you people, you) What can _I_ do? Am I doomed to be looked upon with contempt by black people for the rest of my life? Are my children supposed to expect the same, and their children, ad infinitum?

(Although I should point out I've been in a relationship with a south Indian woman for 3 years and it's possible we'll have kids some day, so the kids won't be white since she's pretty dark. She's a divorcee from her arranged marriage.)

Big Man said...

Anon

Do black people really hate you that much?

Seriously, are we fucking with you on the regular? You seem to feel pretty strongly that black folks don't like you and that's just weird. Most white people I know don't think that at all.

Deacon Blue said...

This is not a reply to Anon directly (nor was my earlier comment either), but I have to say to white in general who might be concerned about "black anger":

General anger about racial inequalities doesn't necessarily mean hatred for individual white folks.

Again, treat individual people around you like equal humans until categorically proven otherwise and you will tend to get the same back from them.

All most of us can do is to be individually decent to folks and not to draw attention to our decency or expect a slap on the back for it (both of which are self serving).

WNG said...

Anon:
First - this entire country benefitted financially from slavery. The factories in the north where most immigrants worked were part of a supply circuit with the plantations in the south and in the islands. There were huge amounts of slave labor in the North and West as well. Even now it is easier for immigrants to get into this country and easier for them to get jobs once they are here if they are white.

It shouldn't be about what black people want you to do, but about what you want to do to make this country and this world a better place for any children you may have (whether they are with this woman or not).

First I would suggest that you learn about the history of this country and the divisions that have been there between whites and every type of brown since the beginning, because I think maybe you need some perspective.

There is no part of life in this country that is not affected by race. When that sentenced can be reversed is when I will be happy. When you are actively working to make that happen (as I am) then I will be happy with YOU.

The question is - when will you be happy with yourself?

the uppity negro said...

@ Anonymous

What I want from YOU personally is to be 100% aware that as a direct result of your white skin that YOU have privileges that those of us who have been kissed by nature's son do not have.

I think that once YOU can do that then, the atmosphere for mutual conversation can take place.

No one's asking you to be the next Tim Wise, but trust me it goes a long way when you begin to open your worldview even wider than it is.

Anonymous said...

BIG MAN, you sound pretty damn angry, if I do say so myself.

I don't think black folks hate me in particular. But I sense the anger. Especially in you!

Let us defer to the wisdom of one Master Yoda:

Anger leads to hate and hate leads to the dark side.

Deacon Blue said...

Of course, Big Man, there's always the Sean Connery quote from "The Untouchables" as a counterpoint:

"He brings a knife, you bring a gun. He puts one of your's in the hospital, you put one of his in the morgue!"

Just wanted you to have some options to choose from. I mean, Yoda is cool and all, but I figured multiple choice might serve you better, and Anon only gave you one...

Big Man said...

I can always count on Deac.

Raving Black Lunatic