Monday, June 21, 2010

Just Move On

Well, I'm sure many of you have seen this blog post that is currently sweeping the internet and email accounts.

Frankly, the author does quite a number on black churches. She goes to great lengths to lay the blame for the lack of married black women at the feet of the church, and basically questions the sanity of anybody who would embrace religion, particularly black Christianity. Citing a study done by the Pew Research Center, she decides that if you're looking for a good black man, the church is the last place to look, and she also questions why anybody would limit themselves to a black man anyway.

Sigh...

There were a lot of issues with the piece. For one, the author uses general statistics to make some of her points, but then uses specific statistics to make others. For example, she notes that the survey found that black folks are far more religious than other races, yet when she goes to make a point about how men are less religious than women, she uses general stats about "men" instead of figures about "black men."

It would stand to reason that if black folks in general are more religious by such large numbers, than black men would also be more religious, which would invalidate the argument that religion doesn't matter to black men. As a matter of fact, a chart in the original study seems to buttress this train of thought since it shows negligible differences between men and women as it relates to what types of churches they attend, and their level of  "non-affiliation" with church. This is the only chart that breaks things down by race and gender, and would seem to be directly related to the author's point. Strangely, it is not referenced.
See, I read the entire piece and scanned the comments. There are many distortions and outright lies about the teaching of Christianity on marriage. There was also the interesting tidbit that the author has never attended church because she doesn't see any value in religion of any sort. Obviously, I found it strange that someone would dedicate such an extensive post to a topic on which they have no firsthand knowledge. Here is one of the author's comments on church:


Deborrah says:


June 21, 2010 at 9:38 AM

You must have missed the part where I said I don’t now and never have gone to church. It’s not anything I’m interested in. Why Black folks always want to assume someone has been “hurt” because they have a controverting opinion from the masses is hysterically funny to me. You all think EXACTLY the same, which to me shows the limits of people that follow religions


This woman doesn't like church. She doesn't think it's useful and, in fact, she finds it detrimental. She thinks more black women would be involved in loving, stable marriages and relationships if they would just remove church from their lives.

More power to her and those who agree with her.

I don't want to attack the messenger, but this woman admittedly has never spent much time in church and currently lists herself as "single." She sees no value in marriage or religion. She believes that black women are fools for maintaining so much loyalty for black men. She expresses disdain for anyone who would embrace the roles for men and women outlined in the Bible.

If women want to take advice on how to serve God and find a black man from this woman, well what can I say? They've made their choice. Personally, that's not how I roll.

When I want to learn something about writing, I speak to writers. Or I write something myself.

When I want to learn about women, I talk to women. Or I observe women for myself.

When I want to learn about marriage, I talk to folks who had been married for a while and appeared to still love each other. And I pay attention to my own marriage.

It doesn't make sense to listen to the advice of someone who has spent very little time researching or studying the topics you are interested in. Why would I allow someone to tell me everything that's wrong with church, or with marriage, if they haven't bothered to experience those two institutions for themselves?

Bottom line, this makes no sense. And, if people are willingly engaging in behavior that makes no sense, and then have the audacity to label those who disagree with them as members of the uneducated masses, well it would appear that there is nothing to be gained from engaging those folks.

It's simply time to move on. I'll close with one of my pops' favorite lines:

The proof is in the pudding.



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41 comments:

CNu said...

Carter G. Woodson said many of the very same things about the Negro Church 77 years ago in The Miseducation of the Negro....,

Woodson's critique bears careful consideration for its timeliness then and its prophetic prescience now.

Big Man said...

I read the Miseducation several times, and I don't remember those critques, but I'll check it out again.

My personal obvservation is that marriages built with God as a foundation tend to last longer and be stronger. Those that eschew God, have more issues.

My understanding of the Bible and study of it, leads me to believe that most folks are operating from a flawed undertanding of what the Bible says about marriage and gender roles. I also find that many humans have twisted God's teachings to suit their own purposes.

Now, I would never deny the myriad of issues present in church. But, their are issues in clubs, bars, pool halls and sports bars, and these are all places the author of the blog post touts as places to meet men. It would seem that the author has decided that the flaws in the church mean it is and unsuitable place to gather if one is looking for a husband, and well that's not what I've observed at all.

T.A.N. Man said...

Good stuff. Solid argument.

Imhotep said...

Broadly speaking, I agree with the sista. Certainly one can find a mate anywhere, the church should not be the primary source of delivery. It's as if a spouse coming by way of the church, will arrive with some sort of certification or validation, nothing could be further from the truth.

I disagree with the sista when she categorize the types of bortha that attend these churchs. Fact is the types run the gamut, and cannot be narrowed down to four or five categories.

I don't have a problem with a sista trying to hook-up with a brotha in the church, as longs as she is receptive to checking out some of the brothas in the library, happy hour, book signing events, or anti-war protest, etc.

My religious leanings are kind of transitory, but I tend to hang with the agnostics. So there is little chance that a church going woman could work for me, and I suspect, I could not do much for her.

Origin said...

What up brotha Bigman.

This sista that wrote this article is off her rocker. I went to her site and read a few of her articles......she has some deep issues with black folks and black men. I was telling my wife the other day that it seems that all the black men who hate black women and black women that hate black men have a freaking blog or website on the internet. Can't we put these self-hating fools on a spaceship and send them into the sun??

I swear if the Klan was hiring these idiots would fill out a application with the quickness.

Origin said...

Look I am not the most religious person in the world. But I do go to church, I never cared to go every sunday and really haven't since I was a child. But to say that the church and black men in the church is the downfall of black women heard.

Yes there are crooked pastors and shady kats in church. Yes I have seen women come to the church is hot momma clothes just leaving from the club. You can find the same type of men she listed at a bar, club, racing track, latin club, country music bar, restaurant, park, non-black church or any other place.

But to condemn all the black people that go to church is some straight up Uncle Ruckus mess. Or should I say Aunt Ruckus.

These comments are just as ignorant and dangerous as what some dumb rapper says in a song or in an interview (ex. Slim Thug, Soldier Boy, etc.). Heck they might be even more dangerous due to individuals like this being educated and the so called true example of black success.

Big man the sad part in all of this is that we know mags and websites like essence, newsone and mediatakeout will put this trash article in their mag or on their site just to throw fresh meat out there for ignorant blacks to eat it up. Next thing you know black men and women are going at it in the comments section. Its divide and conquer in the simplest form. None of these sites or mags will have a true discussion. No one will shoot holes in her garbage statistics like you have or challenge her like you have. Nope they will just throw out that fresh meat for the fools to fight over.

The stuff is just sad....as a black man married to a black woman and who knows black couples and married black couples the stuff just offends me to no end.

One more thing speaking on married black folks......I see more married black couples then I see anywhere else. I often point this out to my wife and daughter. All these married black folks with children all going to church on Sunday. But hey thats me I like to point out the positives in my people. Since they almost never get pointed out.

Big Man said...

Origin

You preaching to the choir in your comments man.

As a black man married to a black woman, who is friends with many black men married to black women, I get personally bothered by this massive meme about the inability of black folks to form lasting positive relationships. It's irking.

But, what I was bothered by with this woman was that she brazenly states she doesn't attend church and has no interest in church, yet she attempts to give an "expert" opinion on church.

That's just backwards. And you're right about these comment sections. It makes me glad I'm married and have a good woman and that I'm not out here searching with these folks.

Imhotep

Church shouldn't be the place you go to in order to "find" a man.
However, if you're a Christian and God is important in your life, I think you definitely need to consider a man's willingness to attend church and serve God when you are considering him as a mate.

The silly thing about this article is that just as many people go to bars, and pool halls and clubs as go to church. Probably more. So it seems strange to tell women that hanging out at those places makes sense, but hanging out at church doesn't. It's just not good logic.

hike2gether@yahoo.com said...

It's "The proof of the pudding is in the eating," FYI.

"The proof is in the pudding" makes no sense.

Big Man said...

It always made sense to me when my pops said it, but thanks for the correction.

He also said "Is it real or is it Memorex."

Pops was full of sayings.

The Girl with the Monkey Mind said...

LOL!

I agree with ya Lunatic... Who on earth would listen to any advice this woman has to give on the topics of marriage and church when she has absolutely ZERO experience in either field? That's like me going to a janitor and expecting him to be able to give me a full dental mouth cleaning.

The main purpose to the Bible as I see it is that we all have problems, we are ALL sinners, so judging and condemning one another is pointless. All we can do is be the best US, and leave everything else up to God.

The most suprising thing I find about this article is the attention you say it is receiving... sounds just like another ignorant person in the world talking loudly in a big room.

and lol @Origen "I swear if the Klan was hiring these idiots would fill out a application with the quickness."

Anonymous said...

I am the fellow who has been around since 1953: I married my present and only wife back in 1975 on a strong church and religious foundation; those same beliefs has help my wife and me remain happily married for nearly 35 years. Yes, we have suffered storms of life; but thru a strong active church life we have endured. Not to give out too much info; we still are in love and share that same type of love as we did our first year of marriage(if you know what I mean). Those who know how to pray and can get a prayer through needs to pray for Ms Deborrah, and she has a bibical name????

Big Man said...

Anonymous

Appreciate the comment. Honestly, I'm not going to spend time praying for Deborrah. She has no interest or respect for God or religion in general, and I'm sure she wouldn't want me praying for her.

I agree with her sentiment that there are quite a few shennanigans going on in church. I just can't understand the logical leap that then assumes that going to church precludes women from finding a man.

That's a helluva leap, and I think she did a poor job explaining it.

Anonymous said...

Keeping it short: The reason I say pray for Ms Deborrah, I went to the site and read the entire article; I also read all of the comments. Many of them were troubling. In her article she only gives one side or 1/3 of what is going on in the church. Weather the Church is (Black, Catholic, Methodic, etc) it is a complicated and complex organization. You cannot correctly identify what is going on without spending some serious committed time and energy there. She is misleading an entire group of individuals by not giving them a complete picture. Reminds me of a wolf in sheep clothing; she is deceiving.

T.A.N. Man said...

Most recently, Pops can be quoted as saying "the proof is in the pudding, and the pudding been ate." Much closer to the correct proverb, and funnier too.

That blogger lady, much like Thugger, has some deeper issues. Too bad she's just words on a computer screen and not someone we can dissect as part of a TV interview or the like.

Big Man said...

Well she's been doing radio interviews for a while from what I gathered from her blog.

Origin said...

I understand where you are coming from bigman. I agree with you she is a hypocrite. You can't call out church then say you never go in the same breath. This is a woman who writes an article about the statistics of 70% black women being single as a big myth (which I agree). Then goes into how statistics aren't accurate and are painting black women overall in a negative light. Then goes on and blames the reason for all of these lying statistics on black men......ummm what??

Then in this article she uses statistics many of the same ones she was condemning, against black men to show how they and the church is holding back black women.

Yeah I think anonymous is right.......maybe I need to pray for that lady. She needs some mental help.

I just look at her as a miserable lady.

Also Bigman I want to agree with you about the families and god. My wife and I might not go to church every Sunday but god has always been a part of our relationship. I have always had a deep belief in god and the same can be said about my wife.

Origin said...

T.A.N. like Bigman said she has been doing interviews. Thats the scary part about it....that people would actually give her an outlet to be heard.

Yet we can't get some of these brothas and sistas who are trying to uplift the community any outlet to be heard.

Its just a damn shame I tell you a damn shame.

CNu said...

I only just now read the article Big Man, and Deborah Cooper didn't lie.

Aaron McGruder didn't lie either, and touched on some of the same issues.

Carter G. Woodson certainly didn't lie when he covered these bases in the chapter in Miseducation titled, The Need for Service Rather than Leadership.

It's kind of funny reading the vehemence of the apologetics for the contemporary Black church on this thread, in light of the abject paucity of accomplishments same said church collectively has to show for serving the needs of the impoverished, unmarried, and struggling flocks on which it preys....,

Big Man said...

Cnu

So you're saying you agree with this women's thesis that if black women are looking for a quality mate, they most certainly should not look in church?

And you agree that church is the main reason why black women cannot find a mate?

Because I don't anybody on this thread would disagree with the notion that their are massive failings in the black church and that those failings have existed for quite some time. It's a human organization with all the failings of most human organizations despite its stated purpose.

My problem is with the argument that bars, pool halls and clubs are better places to meet quality men than church. My problem is the contention that church is what's keeping black women single. My problem is with a woman who claims to never go to church and to have no experience with church making the sort of authoratative statements she made. Bottom line, it's beyond ridiculous to admit to having no practical experience with a topic and then turning aroudn and pretending to be an expert on said topic.

I remember the chapter on service and leadership. I agreed with a lot in that chapter, still do. But, I don't think Woodson's critques, which were driven by scholarship and personal experience, should ever, EVER be compared to what this woman has written. Do you?

On Aaron McGruder, I think that it's quite easy to shoot fish in a barrel. Hypocrisy is a problem in many black churches. Since those churches are composed of human beings, I would be shocked if it wasn't.

No matter he professed belief systems of human beings, at their core they are still human beings with the same foibles and failings. I'm also surprised at how many folks don't realize this simple fact, and seemed shocked when they are exposed to it.

blackgirlinmaine said...

Well as I say on my own blog don't let a bald man tell you how to grow hair. In this case the fact that the author has church issues colors what she says. Fact is for most folks to not only get married but stay married requires folks to be evenly yoked and religion/spitituality is one of those areas.

A dear friend of mine is dealing with this now, she is a devout Christian falls in love with a man who is an atheiest and now she wants marriage and the while enchilada. He says no. Talk about a real dilemma. My girl took the advice this author suggests in that she ended up with a white boy but now where is her future?

There is a reason that so many sistas do look in the church. Churches like anything can be good or bad but to diss the whole institution is just wrong.

CNu said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
CNu said...

Big Man,

We took up this topic several years ago at Cobb - Why Black Men Don't Church:

I'll repeat now what I told the assemblage back then;

I understand that I owe something to my less fortunate brothers, but I'll be damned (I guess so) before I give it to a minister who drives a better car than me. I don't mind supporting ministries, but I've got my priorities.

BINGO!!!

No sane, competent black man is about to subordinate himself to a part-way pimp. It's really just that simple.

No politics.

No program.

No organization.

Nothing remotely approaching the miraculous.

wtf good is the minister and the so-called black ministry? Back in the day, the church afforded some of the best trained, best educated minds and mouths and the economic autonomy to lead in useful ways. Nowadays, that is no longer the case and the talent pool that formerly might have sought out a "calling" has instead sought out and been sought by corporate America.

It's nearly identical to pedagogy. The best trained, best educated minds of old have sought greener and more upstanding pastures elsewhere, leaving a dregs that is fundamentally incapable and unworthy of leading competent black men.

CNu said...

Then, there was The Current and Future Black Church....,

CNu said...

I got two words for anything calling itself a church that wants to be relevant to current and future Black men.

BUILD SCHOOLS!!!!

everything else is ignorant and superstitious conversation......,

Cobb's GOAT essay;

The Broken Negro Church Monopoly
By the mid 1960s, the Negro Church was the primary source of political activism before the dawning of the black power movement. As anyone who has understood the study of racism in American Christianity (especially those informed by Rev. Fred Price) knows, there was direct complicity in racist suppression of the power of black churches by most of the major protestant hierarchs. In other words, when it came to black liberation, too many Negro preachers were bought off. Some even believed in and preached the Curse of Ham as a biblical reason blacks should not press for advancement in American society. The Nation of Islam could not have been formed if this were not self-evident to the common man.

But specifically those who would be leaders into a new political and cultural reality for African Americans, the leaders of the Black Power, Black Arts & Black Consciousness movements where denied access to the Negro Church and also demonized from the pulpit.

CNu said...

continued;

Today we still have a legacy of overreaching black ministers doing dirty work that is counter to the well-being of their 'constituents', one need look no further than Al Sharpton, former FBI informant.

The founders of Kwanzaa, as well as a great number of black intellectuals who have formed the institutions of Afro-American studies on our nation's campuses, understood that there needed to be multiple and diverse institutional sources of empowerment for and by African America. And they have succeeded.

I'm sure there are plenty of black Christians who believe that no institution outside of the black Church should have primary influence of the culture, politics and social conventions of African Americans. It's too late for that, and African America has voted with its feet. That Old Time Religion ain't good enough. While some have made foolish use of this liberty, and others have done absolutely nothing, on the whole African America is better off having a diversity of institutions upon which they can depend.

There is nothing so sad and sorry as a Baptist trying to out-Christian a Catholic, and nothing speaks to the indignation over Kwanzaa so much as the argument against Karenga. I could spend a month of Sundays categorizing defrocked priests and jackleg ministries. How many congregants would like to hear that God doesn't hear your prayers if they come from a church whose minister has broken the law?

But let us consider what parts of Black History these fundamentalists would have us discard. The Black Arts Movement. What part did the Negro Church play in it?

African American success is very much like other immigrant groups' success although you don't hear it said very often. We start in ethnic enclaves, and forbidden from mainstreaming we overbuild and over-depend on those enclaves. Doubting the permanence of cross-over, many remain tied to their provincial ways. Sometimes it takes generations but eventually and inevitably the old ways give way to new ways. There was a time not long ago whenI read Ebony Magazine's 100 Most Influetial Blacks, and men and women who led fraternities like the Elks and the Prince Hall Masons were top dogs. Could we have ever imagined that blacks would run Sears, American Express and Time?

We are accepted and involved in a broader variety of institutions in America. Not all of us are moving at the same speed but the trend is forward. Consequently the old Church will become more a center of pure spiritual doings and much less in political and other doings. This is an opportunity for the Black Church to re-focus and re-energize its primary purpose. I hope it does so. But what we know about people in power is that they want most to hold on to that power. So we know that ministers will be sorely tempted to be more than spiritual guides. Every church has a commitment to its community, and communities vary. But on the whole we will see less political production from churches and more mainstreaming by black communities.

If you ask me what today's black church ought to be doing more than anything, the answer is simple. Build schools. There is nothing so abominally embarrassing as a mega-interdenominational (maximal market share, minimal discipline) with thousands of members and a worship-dome. Because just up the street is a modest Catholic church with a school that's superior to public school. On that note, I find the greatest fault. We've been here hundreds of years, how many of our schools are self-funded? Now tell me what you're marching for?

Big Man said...

CNu

I have no beef with what Cobb wrote. Honestly, I do not.

I agree on what the primary focus of churches should be. I agree with the anger towards prosperity ministeries and preachers. I agree that churches could do WAY more social activism under the guise of Chrisitanity. I agree that ministers were often defacto overseers for slavemasters.

But, I'm unclear what that has to do with the topic of finding a man at church?

Moreover, I disagree with the notion that "black men don't church."

Are there many men who don't go to church, sure. But, there are also plenty of cats who see church as central to their identity, I'm friends with many of them and have been since they were running the streets.

If cats have a problem tithing or giving offerings, they need to first recognize why they give that money in the first place, and they then need to join a church where they don't feel like their money is being misused. It's that simple.

Most folks gravitate to these mega-churces because they are filling a need. They are telling folks want they want to hear, and only charging them a voluntary fee to do it.

Bottom line, there is not a single place in the world where you can meet men that is not going to have bad apples. I have not seen a compelling argument that chuch is worse than the bar, club, poetry reading or park.

I've just seen arguments about the problems of the church. I don't see how those problems eliminate church as a viable option for finding a quality man.

Big Man said...

Also, here in my city, many of your mega churches are building schools, day-care centers and the like. It's usually the smaller churches that don't branch out like that, but the large ones are doing that and even building apartment complexes.

Finally, I don't buy that catholic school is better than public school, at least not where I live. Lol.

CNu said...

So you're saying you agree with this women's thesis that if black women are looking for a quality mate, they most certainly should not look in church?

Correct.

And you agree that church is the main reason why black women cannot find a mate?

I would agree that Black men willing to subordinate themselves to the leadership of an obviously failed institution - either sincerely or for the sake of appearances, or even just to go-along to get-along - is probably not going to be solid husband-father-leader material.

Because I don't anybody on this thread would disagree with the notion that their are massive failings in the black church and that those failings have existed for quite some time.

and are in no risk of being systemically remediated by strong husband-father-leader men unwilling to settle for a failed institution.

It's a human organization with all the failings of most human organizations despite its stated purpose.

stop..., the church is supposed to exemplify everything to which one might aspire. failing this, it has failed its purpose altogether and devolved into something ersatz and irreligious....,

CNu said...

Bottom line, there is not a single place in the world where you can meet men that is not going to have bad apples. I have not seen a compelling argument that chuch is worse than the bar, club, poetry reading or park.

Big Man, the level of "pretending" one might expect to encounter at a bar, club, slam or park is of an entirely other order than the level of pretending one is liable to encounter in a church.

I've just seen arguments about the problems of the church. I don't see how those problems eliminate church as a viable option for finding a quality man.

The problems and failings of the church no more eliminate finding a quality man in one, than say, the problems in a ramshackle leaky shotgun shack preclude you from finding a quality carpenter/craftsman living in the same.

Big Man said...

That last comment was funny, I must admit.

I find that your characterizations of the church, and your idea about one must do to be a member of a church don't match with my own experiences. It's interesting.

I'm not saying I haven't been to churches that fit your description, I'm saying that the simplest solution, which me and my family often utilized, was to find another church that suits your needs. I know many black folks believe in staying at the same church no matter what, but I wasn't raised like that. If the church got out of line, then we moved on.

Also, I agree with you on the aspirations of the church. However, I would argue that you can say the same for each believer in Christ. We all are supposed to aspire to something more and strive to make our lives more closely resemble Christ's. Yet, because of our humanity, we will fail time and time again at this mission, although hopefully we will show progress. I would say the same for a church.

There will be failings in a church. The hope is that these failings are not all that the church has to offer, and that the church is striving towards a higher calling. Expecting my church to be perfect would be like expecting my marriage to be perfect.

But, I do appreciate you taking the time to explain why you and many cats like you have such a problem with church. It's interesting that so many cats see it as a "punking." I never knew that.

CNu said...

I got no problem with church whatsoever Big Man.

It's just that there are a whole lot of pretenders in ad hoc and pretend organizations calling themselves leaders (many even with "First Lady's") and calling the ignorant, sinful, hot mess that they perpetrate church.

Church is identifiable by its servant leadership and their tangible works.

Everything else is just superstition and exploitation of the same.

Big Man said...

All right, I understand your point.

And is that you in the white shirt with the glasses marching? Just wondering.

CNu said...

rotflmbao...,

one deevee moment deserves another.

show me a church as humble, dedicated, and known for its good works and service as St. Marys.

_________________?

bonus points if you can link a single instance that includes a "First Lady".....,

in my occasionally humble experience, Carter G. ain't never lied yet.

Big Man said...

I'm glad you added that "occasionally."

Nah, I was serious. I've seen you say you're from K.C., seen you say your Oriental Orthodox and seen you say you do work with at-risk kids. I remember somebody describing you as resembling the cat in that photo, so I thought that might be a pic of you at one of your churches events.

And, while I will admit that they churches you describe are far too prevalent, I don't know if they are grounds for an indictment of the entire black church. Matter of fact, I will even note that there are some churches with "First ladies" who also have after school tutoring, AIDS testing and outreach and a host of other public service arms. I'm not going to pretend it's the majority of them, but I think it's wrong to use such broad generalizations.

But, if you agree with homegirl, I doubt I'm gonna change your mind. So it's cool.

CNu said...

And, while I will admit that they churches you describe are far too prevalent, I don't know if they are grounds for an indictment of the entire black church.

KIT tied down any remaining loose ends.

Matter of fact, I will even note that there are some churches with "First ladies" who also have after school tutoring, AIDS testing and outreach and a host of other public service arms.

yeah boi-eee...., them jokers was scuffling to pick up some faith-based initiative $$$ there for half a hot minute.....,

T.A.N. Man said...

These comments got off the subject a long time ago. Everyone is entitled to their opinions on whatever subject, including the value of religion or church in the Black community. The original point what this lady's opinion wall poorly-structured, not founded in empirical data, and incredibly slanted to her personal leanings. It's insane for any person to profess expert status on not one but two subjects on which they have no personal knowledge.

CNu said...

There's no confusion about this subject matter whatsoever, except among men unwilling to objectively look at the facts of the matter.

The subject is the weakness, uselessness, and predatory nature of the ersatz religious enclaves passing themselves off as the modern Black "church".

The problems and failings of the church no more eliminate finding a quality man in one, than say, the problems in a ramshackle leaky shotgun shack preclude you from finding a quality carpenter/craftsman living in the same.

sheeeeiiiiitttt......,

Even crazy James Manning's right twice a day when it comes to the so-called Black "church".

ATLAH!!!

Deborrah Cooper said...

Black folks on this site ASSume a lot without knowing me.

First of all I have been very happily married. My husband died some years ago in an auto accident. I have not remarried due to the fact that men I've come across are not worth me spending more than a few dates with, let alone my entire life.

Secondly, attacking me because you don't like what I say is the typical tactic of a loser in an argument. You have nothing solid to controvert the facts and statements in the argument and rather than face the fact that you are living a lie, you attempt to discredit and denigate me. LOLOL! Sorry, I've seen that tactic 10,000 times and it never works people.

Lastly, I will be discussing this issue on my talk show on Saturday 7/10/2010. If you want to check out the conversation log onto http://www.blogtalkradio.com/askheartbeat.

Deborrah Cooper said...

Also, this article is not directed towards married people. So all those holding their spouse up as an example of how great their life is are missing the point. YOU ARE NOT SINGLE. You are not in church being told to wait on a man to come. You are not in church on your knees lonely and hungering for love. Nope, you go home and have hot sweaty sex! So really, the thoughts, opinions and feelings of married men and women on this topic do not count.

Big Man said...

I didn't assume anything.

I pointed to what you wrote.

As for the idea that married people shouldn't comment on a commentary about where to find a suitable partner, well the fact that you would believe that just proves my earlier point about your advice.

If I'm married, and a churchgoing man who was a churchgoing man before I met my wife, and almost all of my friends are churchgoing men who were churchgoing men before they met their wives, then doesn't that invalidate the point that women looking for men in church are wasting their time?

And, it still doesn't address the fact that the various types of losers you described hanging out at church can be found at any locale where black men congregate, or rather where men congregate.

Furthermore, your own comments in your comments section along with on the rest of your blog are where I got my ideas about how you feel about marriage, men, religion and God. I didn't attack you, I just pointed out what you believed and told people to consider those beliefs when reading your commentary.

Falsing claiming you've been attacked is a weak tactic.

CNu said...

Nope, you go home and have hot sweaty sex!

lol..,

that only happens before you get married.

As for the rest, the institutional defense of the monolithic Black church was hella weak on this thread.

Anecdotes DO NOT comprise data, and history and the current state of po Black folk culturally, politically, educationally, and spiritually DO NOT speak well for and institutional force any further evolved than what Carter G. denigrated 77 years ago.

The Civil Rights Movement witnessed the zenith of the Black Church as a cultural influence in the lives of Black Americans. Since that period, with the exodus of the best and brightest out of the pulpits due to expanded opportunities, overall, the Black church has devolved into an extremely retrograde and parasitic force in Black American life.

Raving Black Lunatic