tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6803135128442396638.post5972891263331877780..comments2023-10-31T06:20:45.622-05:00Comments on Raving Black Lunatic: Babies and BathwaterBig Manhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02510881583909431416noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6803135128442396638.post-38057876030311605952008-12-03T09:18:00.000-06:002008-12-03T09:18:00.000-06:00To Deacon Blue: The Flamboyant Gay, the hard-core...To Deacon Blue: The Flamboyant Gay, the hard-core womynist are not recruiting members. The problem with Christians is they attempt to promote their book and ideology to folks even when they are told it is not wanted. Even your argument held the premise that the book that you quote from means a hill of beans to me! What do I care what your scripture says when I don't find the source fallible in the first place? That type of assumption and arrogance is what drives many to want to flip the switch on that beacon. I'll find my own way thank you very much......Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6803135128442396638.post-31842153811583461522008-11-26T14:27:00.000-06:002008-11-26T14:27:00.000-06:00Sorry, does not compute for me. I was raised as a...Sorry, does not compute for me. I was raised as a black man and I was raised in the church but I am now a confirmed aetheist. Make of it what you will but if patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel I am not sure what to make of appeals to religion in the public square. I do not discount the beliefs of other but can only examine their actions. Some of the actions have not been pretty. Part on my confirmation has been the inability of me to separate the institution of religion from its belief system. From a historical purpose, the correlation is slim. There are good men/women everywhere, I choose not to delve in religion.<BR/><BR/>end of rantAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6803135128442396638.post-11747937589006568012008-11-24T18:53:00.000-06:002008-11-24T18:53:00.000-06:00**opens mouth inserts foot**I thought this was gre...**opens mouth inserts foot**<BR/><BR/>I thought this was great article and opened up the floor for some meaningful discussion.<BR/><BR/>If, you see why I am suffering from foot in the mouth disease, just check out my latest article.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6803135128442396638.post-21413001391290618242008-11-24T10:06:00.000-06:002008-11-24T10:06:00.000-06:00Anon, it is true that Christians can be "in the fa...Anon, it is true that Christians can be "in the face" at times in being a beacon light. A Christian doing what he/she should be doing doesn't need to turn off the beacon, becasue he/she won't be blinding anybody (though that's not to say that person won't catch flak from folks who despise religion on general principles sometimes).<BR/><BR/>The Bible talks about not hiding your light under a bushel, for example. That doesn't mean stick a torch right up into someone's face. It means you shouldn't cower and cringe and pretend that being Christian isn't an important part of your life. Being a light for Christ is about being a good example and not hiding the fact that it's God's light you're reflecting, and not because you're so freaking wonderful. That light doesn't have to be blinding, and in most cases, shouldn't be.<BR/><BR/>Also, if we're going to take the "beacon light" analogy, what does a beacon do? It helps keep you aware of something important. Like a lighthouse sweeps its light broadly instead of shining on one ship or one small spot in the ocean. Beacons should not be blinding, because then they become safety hazards. A light that is truly a "beacon" doesn't need to be shut off and shouldn't be, because it is there to show you something; you shouldn't be focusing on the beacon but on the message it is supposed to convey to you. And if you don't like that message, by all means steer a different course with your ship or brave the rocks in front of you. It's your choice.<BR/><BR/>I wouldn't ask a gay person who's on the more flamboyant end to turn down his "gayness" and I wouldn't tell a hard-core feminist to turn down her "womyn-ism." I wouldn't expect Bill O'Reilly to cease being a jerk most of the time and wouldn't ask him to; I'd just walk away from him. Etc. Etc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6803135128442396638.post-88867082975068223042008-11-24T09:59:00.000-06:002008-11-24T09:59:00.000-06:00DaveThanks for that international insight. Interes...Dave<BR/><BR/>Thanks for that international insight. Interesting stuff.<BR/><BR/>Imohotep and Anon<BR/><BR/>I feel y'all on Christians refusing to turn off the beacon light. I'll admit that some of my fellow believers are a tad aggressive when it comes to recruitment. I'm not one of them, but I'm in the minority. <BR/>Honestly, I don't know what to do about that.Big Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02510881583909431416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6803135128442396638.post-27961828565918181882008-11-23T23:14:00.000-06:002008-11-23T23:14:00.000-06:00You know what's funny? About 6-7 years ago this s...You know what's funny? About 6-7 years ago this same debate was being played out here. We had a right-wing party called the "Alliance" that just couldn't seem to attract the minority vote (In this case Hindu and Sikh voters). Amusingly though, our right wing party figured out the problem (holdover anti-immigration values from their previous incarnation as the "Reform Party") and solved it. They demoted and gagged all the really hardline anti-immigration types, this in the post 9/11 world, reincarnated their party as the "Conservative Party" to put more distance between those views and themselves, and managed to attract a slate of East Indian candidates across the country.<BR/><BR/>I still remember hearing on the right wing radio call in shows back then the East Indian men calling in and complaining that they wanted to vote for them, they didn't agree with gay marraige, abortion, et al, but they had to vote Liberal for the sake of bringing over their family who were still overseas...<BR/><BR/>It's amazing how politics are the same no matter where you're from...Dizzyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15035724876568823772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6803135128442396638.post-9976443233738844492008-11-23T20:49:00.000-06:002008-11-23T20:49:00.000-06:00If you compare these two statements I think you'll...If you compare these two statements I think you'll find one of the reasons why they... "look down" upon others <BR/><BR/>But, I've also discovered that those who do not have a belief in Christ or any god have a tendency to look down on those people who do, particularly those people who talk about their beliefs often.<BR/><BR/>vs.<BR/><BR/>... we are also taught to be "beacon lights" to non-believers <BR/><BR/>sometime Christians refuse to turn that danged beacon off even when asked politely....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6803135128442396638.post-57973496726592189042008-11-22T12:24:00.000-06:002008-11-22T12:24:00.000-06:00Big Man, Thanks for a good read. I don't agree wit...Big Man, Thanks for a good read. I don't agree with everything, but I'll get to that.<BR/><BR/>McBias said "And it's somewhat disappointing to me that, given the choice between a party that supports your race and a party that supports your religion, most opt for race over religion."<BR/><BR/>Forgive me is if misquote the bible, but it said something to the effect "before you talk about the splinter in someone's eye, remove the log from your own"<BR/><BR/>McBias how can you pose such a ridiculous question to Big Man? There is a region of this country refered to as the Bible Belt. It is the least tolerant, most hateful and racist part of this country. That's saying something given the history of this country. It is the Bible Belt that spawned the klan, jim crow and the southern strategy. Clearly these bible thumpers chose race over the religion. I hope you're visiting their blogs and challenging them of their hypocrisy. <BR/><BR/>Why do you think sundays are the most segregated day of the week? I believe it the choice of race over religion. All started and perpetuated by the white folks.<BR/><BR/>BigMan said, "But, I've also discovered that those who do not have a belief in Christ or any god have a tendency to look down on those people who do, particularly those people who talk about their beliefs often."<BR/><BR/>I don't look down on those who found something that's meaningful in their lives. If I look down on anyone, It's becasue it seems like I'm being forced to accept someone elses beliefs. I don't care if you shout it to the high heavens, but if I tell you I'm not interested, then leave me the F alone. No, I'm not going with you to church, or bible study, don't send me emails either. <BR/><BR/>I don't dismiss or diminish a persons belief and faith in their God, I rejoice for ya. But allow me the right to not embrace your beliefs or to listen to it.Imhotephttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05135775572019402064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6803135128442396638.post-49003443244645898982008-11-22T07:30:00.000-06:002008-11-22T07:30:00.000-06:00Oh, I didn't mean to imply that I think it's evil ...Oh, I didn't mean to imply that I think it's evil and I'm sorry to have come off as overreacting. I mean that I think it's more of what the founders had in mind when they laid out the whole separation of church and state. That an organised religion can not use its monies and members to wield legislative power. I'm uncomfortable with church lobbies.<BR/><BR/>Deacon, I don't like how nonbelievers tend to treat people of faith either. I freely admit that there are many religious practises that leave me cold but I'm also offended at atheists who shrill about any public expressions of faith.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6803135128442396638.post-75387414500624322462008-11-21T15:23:00.000-06:002008-11-21T15:23:00.000-06:00Like Esquire, I was also struck by this part of yo...Like Esquire, I was also struck by this part of your post:<BR/>----------------------<BR/>But, I've also discovered that those who do not have a belief in Christ or any god have a tendency to look down on those people who do, particularly those people who talk about their beliefs often.<BR/>---------------------<BR/><BR/>But then again, I just today had my own run-in with that mind-set at one of the other blogs I frequent other than yours.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6803135128442396638.post-71120209155604037362008-11-21T10:00:00.000-06:002008-11-21T10:00:00.000-06:00LoloIs it really that evil for Christians to use t...Lolo<BR/><BR/>Is it really that evil for Christians to use their money to overturn laws they don't agree with?<BR/><BR/>Isn't that what all citizens have the right to do? I mean, if black people want to lobby to overturn laws they don't agree with, is that a bad thing? <BR/><BR/>The only problem I have is the non-profit status of churches prevents them from getting politically involved. If they want to get politically involved, they need to relinquish that status. Other than that, I don't have an issue with faith organizations banding together to get their interests dealt with.Big Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02510881583909431416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6803135128442396638.post-16213122672876686582008-11-21T09:56:00.000-06:002008-11-21T09:56:00.000-06:00MCBiasIt's hard for me to choose whether I'm a bla...MCBias<BR/><BR/>It's hard for me to choose whether I'm a black man or a Christian first. If I had to choose with would be Christ, but I probably think abotu what it means to be black as much as I think about what it means to be a Christian, if not more.<BR/><BR/>However, I think you are operating from some bad information. It isn't that black people won't join something where there aren't other black people. We go to Ivy League schools, work at Fortune 500 companies and play baseball, all of those areas are light on the black folks. People always overplay the notion that you need diversity to attract diversity.<BR/><BR/>What you need to attract black people is a consistent effort to make your organization comfortable for them, and many white people balk at that. Mainly because it would mean changes in their "traditions."<BR/><BR/>For Republicans, some of your positions will mean you will always be at odds with a large segment of black people as long as we are disproportionately affected by poverty. Republicans don't seem to care about solving the poverty problem and many black people feel that means they don't care about us.<BR/><BR/>But, getting rid of the rampant racism would be a good way to attract more of the black people who aren't that concerned with poverty.Big Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02510881583909431416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6803135128442396638.post-80967952572801790872008-11-21T07:17:00.000-06:002008-11-21T07:17:00.000-06:00One of the things that we as a society don't fully...One of the things that we as a society don't fully grasp about how the constitution was framed was that it was informed by the times in which it was formulated. Remember, the Puritans left behind a Europe that was almost entirely lashed to The Church and its own agendas. That is the basis for separation of church and state. The idea was not to divorce religious principles from public discourse but to sever the power of religious demagoguery from the government. The most obvious parallel in present day terms would be Iran.<BR/><BR/>I have little problem with my elected leaders having faith in a higher power, it's the possibility of said religion (note, I do not say "faith" but "religion") exerts unchecked power through its practitioners that makes me deeply uneasy.<BR/><BR/>This is my problem with how much catering the Republicans have done to such as Falwell, Dobson, et al. They and their ilk appear to have an entirely different approach to influencing our laws than the Reverends Graham or King, for example. Asking your fellow citizens to march against injustice, under our laws, is a fine but crucial difference than using the tithes of your church to lobby to overturn the laws that you don't agree with.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6803135128442396638.post-73150518138388694222008-11-21T01:30:00.000-06:002008-11-21T01:30:00.000-06:00MCBias - genuine concern and work toward minority ...MCBias - genuine concern and work toward minority issues would be a good start. The Republicans are worse than the Democrats about not showing up until they want your vote. <BR/><BR/>The views expressed by many of the party's talking heads against Affirmative Action and illegal immigration literally reek of racism. It's hard to ignore that when you head to the polls.<BR/><BR/>And I think that is their biggest problem. The Republicans problem has more to do with the Rush and Hannity's of this world.Esquirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05488954592733608122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6803135128442396638.post-9598614006418418452008-11-21T01:24:00.000-06:002008-11-21T01:24:00.000-06:00Big Man - But, I've also discovered that those who...Big Man - <I>But, I've also discovered that those who do not have a belief in Christ or any god have a tendency to look down on those people who do, particularly those people who talk about their beliefs often.</I><BR/><BR/>Great post. I have also found this to be unfortunately true. This leads to people just not talking about religion at all and no progress is ever made. <BR/><BR/>I also find the attacks on the Christian right to be pretty much baloney. The Republicans use religion to draw those people in and then do completely the opposite once they are in office. Bush and Co were not being guided by God. The only reason the race was even close was because of those people's loyalty to the party. So I have to agree with you that they are tossing the baby out with the bathwater.Esquirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05488954592733608122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6803135128442396638.post-25941418111070389052008-11-21T00:42:00.000-06:002008-11-21T00:42:00.000-06:00Big Man, I like what you have to say here. But wha...Big Man, I like what you have to say here. But what seriously bothers me is, what does the Republican Party have to do to attract minorities? Yes, it's fairly white right now. So the problem is, blacks and Hispanics look and say "I don't see my race there", and so the GOP has no chance of attracting them. How could that change?<BR/><BR/>And it's somewhat disappointing to me that, given the choice between a party that supports your race and a party that supports your religion, most opt for race over religion. I was born here to two immigrants from the same European country. Ethnic pride is reasonably strong in me. But I was only born into that family tree...I CHOSE Christianity. It's not even close for me which is more dominant, race or religion. So why not so for others? How about you, Big Man--what are you first, a black man or a Christian? <BR/><BR/>Yes, these are provocative questions, but I don't mean them as slams. I'm honestly asking here because I don't get it.MCBiashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08158534411541450613noreply@blogger.com